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Forums>StrategyQuant>StrategyQuant and Apple M1 chip

  • #268268 |
    Customer
    71 Posts

    Hi StrategyQuant team,

    Apple have recently released their new M1 chip and performance of this compared with Intel based systems have been far superior. There is talk of the next edition of the M1 chip coming out from 2021 which will have 16 core and 32 cores.

    This processing performance along with lower power utilisation will be a real benefit to users of StrategyQuant.

    Currently I have a powerful machine running 24/7 generating strategies… it’s big and noisy and generates a lot of heat… it would be awesome to have a mac mini or two equivalent in the corner doing this

    I know that StrategyQuant is a WIndows only executable currently but is there a roadmap to have a Mac version in the future? Is it easy to port over? I know there are Windows emulators like Parallels but a native version would be far more efficient.

    Comments ? Thoughts?

    #268269
    Customer
    791 Posts

    i think that already from build 129 is MAC and LINUX already available  – https://strategyquant.com/download/

    You want to be a profitable algotrader? We started using StrateQuant software in early 2016. For now we have a very big knowhow for building EAs for every possible types of markets. We share this knowhow, apps, tools and also all final strategies with real traders. If you want to join us, fill in the FORM. 1500+ final SQX strategies for members running on demo accounts to verify the edge DEMO ACCS. We provide also strategies for indices - DAX, DOW JONES, NASDAQ, SP, UK, because we have realtick data from our brokers.

    #268272
    Customer
    71 Posts

    Oh wow.. I wasn’t even aware that this existed. Thanks Hankeys for letting me know.

     

     

    #268274
    Customer
    71 Posts

    I guess the next question is if anyone has tested this with the new Apple Mac machines… I’d be curious to find out how fast this is compared with Intel based processors

    #268301
    Customer
    64 Posts

    I’ve been using the Mac version of SQX on my intel based iMac for the last 3 or 4 months. I had previously used the trial version of SQX on the same Mac only that was with Parallels on Windows.

    I can say that the Mac version is definitely quicker but obviously you would expect that due to the fact that the Mac’s resources are not assigned to two operating systems at the same time via the Parallels setup.

    Overall it runs well on the Mac. Any minor issues I’ve had I reported to the Dev team and they have been very good at getting them resolved and updated.

    However I do have some outstanding questions:

    – I want to update my Mac to the new Big Sur operating system that cam out recently, will SQX run stable on this? (I asked the dev team but they did not know)

    – will it run stable on the new Apple M1 silicon?

    – and, as you have asked in your post here will there be plans to get it fully optimised for M1, M2 etc? The potential performance increases look huge.

     

    One word of caution though. I f you do start using the Mac version make sure you back up the user file every time prior to opening the software. On several occasions it has glitched during loading the software and it deletes every strat in all databanks ever created!

     

     

    #268312
    ivan
    Participant
    223 Posts

    the Apple M1 is an ARM mobile SoC, not even a processor

    i doubt it will be suited for SQ generating. Probably its performance and energy efficiency will be greater than older generation desktop processors but it wont get even close in multi threaded applications to present day desktop processors, especially AMD

    but the more general concern should be that notebooks, laptops are simply not designed to operate at full load 100%, 24 hours a day for months. Everything from the motherboard, to the cooling system and fans, the bearing of the fans are not suited for continuous operation and they will fail within a year. Only ball bearings can be used in continuous operation

    I dont know about Apple warranty policy but such an extreme usage scenario, it might void the warranty

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by ivanivan.

    Timisoara, Romania
    3900X 3.8 Ghz 12 cores, 64GB RAM DDR4 3000Mhz, Samsung 970 EVO Plus M.2 NVMe

    #268319
    Customer
    64 Posts

    You’re correct the new chips are based on ARM architecture but the  laptops were just the first phase of the Apple silicon upgrade. The entire production line will be upgraded with new chips (M1, M1X, M2 etc) including iMacs all the way to the Mac Pro. The timeline of that is probably about 18 months. I dont think anyone with any hardware knowledge would suggest running a laptop 24/7 for this kind of operation so thats not really relevant.

    I have no doubt that these chips will be perfectly suited to this kind of number crunching and from what I’ve seen online from real world use and bench marks across a wide spectrum of use they look extremely good. I do accept that benchmarks can be misleading if done incorrectly.

    I disagree with your assessment on the performance comparison to AMD. The leakers are already divulging that a 32 core processor will be making its way into the production line in the near future and thats just for starters. Intel and AMD have got some new competition and in the long run with their x86 architecture and awful thermal handicap they wont be able to compete, bearing in mind the high performances being observed right now are with the basic  M1 chip which has only 4 high performance cores.

    My Mrs is getting one of the new entry level Macbook Airs next month and I’ll do a trial run with SQX to see a). if it actually runs on it and b). what the unoptimised performance is like.

    I’m no devoted Apple fan boy and use both Intel and Apple hardware but I’ve long been looking for a move away from the inherently inefficient x86 instruction set that AMD and Intel are tied to. Let’s see if this is a step in a positive direction.

     

     

    #270177
    Customer
    71 Posts

    Now that the M1 chip is supported with the latest 131 build of Strategy Quant.. has anyone had a chance to test this and note the speed compared with their Windows machine?

    #270204
    Customer
    64 Posts

    I’ve been testing StrategyQuant with the M1 recently using the base model M1 Macbook Air with 8GB RAM vs my iMac i5 quad core with 32GB RAM. It appears to be 2.5 to 3 times faster than my iMac although I can see in the activity monitor the status for the StrategyQuant process is still listed with an Intel architecture so Im assuming it has not been optimised for the M1 yet.

    I would also think this is running through Rosetta which definitely isn’t optimum. I saw another post requesting the use of the additional cores from the M1s GPU and Neural Engine.

    So it would appear there is definitely room for further improvements.

    As for stability the latest Mac build (B131) is not very stable on either the new M1 or the Intel Mac unfortunately not so much with the processing side of things but with the GUI or so it appears from my usage and testing. Reports have been filed from me and others so Im sure the dev team are looking to get the issues resolved.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by Jason.
    #270206
    Customer
    71 Posts

    Thanks Jason

    I am trying to figure out what would be the equivalent Ryzen chipset and Intel chipset would be vs the Apple M1… any ideas how we can check this?

    I can see benchmarks like Cinebench, Geekbench but which one is closest to the type of processing that creates strategies on SQ?

    I currently have a Ryzen 2700 which has served me well but need something more powerful.

    #270214
    Customer
    64 Posts

    When Im looking at benchmarks for SQX comparisons I generally look to include the Xcode benchmarks. Its not perfect and perhaps there are others that I am unaware of but its certainly a good one to add to the comparison.

    I definitely need an upgrade for my main work horse. As a mac user I’m going to wait until they announce the 27″ iMac replacement maybe later this year or early 2022. It should have the third iteration of the M1 chip by then (maybe called M1z) with a rumoured 12, 16 cores or 32 cores.

     

    #270230
    ivan
    Participant
    223 Posts

    Thanks Jason I am trying to figure out what would be the equivalent Ryzen chipset and Intel chipset would be vs the Apple M1… any ideas how we can check this? I can see benchmarks like Cinebench, Geekbench but which one is closest to the type of processing that creates strategies on SQ? I currently have a Ryzen 2700 which has served me well but need something more powerful.

    the answer is a bit more complex

    first of all, regarding Ryzen and x86 platforms in general, the CPU-Z multicore benchmarks would be the closest imitation of SQX and a good comparison. The 2700 or 2700X is too weak for a good system, with arond 4800 points. The bare minimum at the present would be a 3700X with some 5.500 points. I had the 3700X so i know what i am talking about. At the present moment i have the 3900X with some 8.400 points and i plan to upgrade to 3950X with 11.100 points.

    Regarding M1, we are comparing different things, M1 is a soc, not a desktop processor and its on ARM, not x86. Its more similar with android smartphone processors. Also most benchmarks are on single core which is not relevant to SXQ performance where multicore would be more appropriate. But from the benchmarks available, the M1 is not a concern or a threat to the top performing Ryzens.

    Last but not least, i am not familiar with apple warranty policies but using a computer in full load 24 hours a day, 7 days a week continuously could void the warranty on many laptops and mini pcs because they are not designed to function this way.

     

    Timisoara, Romania
    3900X 3.8 Ghz 12 cores, 64GB RAM DDR4 3000Mhz, Samsung 970 EVO Plus M.2 NVMe

    #270238
    Customer
    64 Posts

    It’s always amusing that folk end up with a discussion thats adversarial in nature with language like “Threats or concerns” to this chip or that chip😂. It’s a CPU not a planned invasion of a  country! I doubt there’s going to be a mass exodus from x86 to ARM chips just yet.

    For the record though the M1 is an entry level first stab by Apple whereas AMD and Intel have been at it for many decades.

    Fair point about the long hourly usage.

    #270243
    ivan
    Participant
    223 Posts

    For the record though the M1 is an entry level first stab by Apple whereas AMD and Intel have been at it for many decades. Fair point about the long hourly usage.

    what are the temperatures on those two macs when using for at least 3 or 4 hours? where do you keep them, meaning inside in a living room?

     

    Timisoara, Romania
    3900X 3.8 Ghz 12 cores, 64GB RAM DDR4 3000Mhz, Samsung 970 EVO Plus M.2 NVMe

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